Incest

[Farler]

Is it wrong and why?

Im having this "discussion" on another forum but it's gone the way of:
"im going to rape my little girl when she's 8"
"jews are bad jews are bad"
and "ewwwwwwwww"

So for the sake of my sanity I want to have a real discussion with people who have enough intelligence to do so.

Now I personally have no problem with any kind of loving relationship between consenting adults. So Im for incest. So please let's start discussing...

Oh and ya know if obvious jokes come up we should still jump on them cause well it is us and intelligent discussion can be accompanied with humore as long as it doesn't stagnate things.

[Death Dragon2]

As long as the two are consenting adults, I have no problems with it.

[Big Otis Landfish]

Yes, but how about having children from incest? Besides it being a near-universal human taboo, there's reasons for incest laws. For what relationships, if any is this in OK?

Note in Canada it's legal to marry your cousin.

[Farler]

Yes, but how about having children from incest? Besides it being a near-universal human taboo, there's reasons for incest laws. For what relationships, if any is this in OK?

Note in Canada it's legal to marry your cousin.


Yes it is!... anyways. Now as far as having children is concerned there is a slightly higher risk of genetic malformations. However these things already have to be present in both parents, also there's a chance that certain positive genes will be fortified by an incestous pairing.

You can look into pretty much any pure bred animal to see that. Incest was often used to create pure breeds with desired traits.

Now that's the physical, as far as the mental is concerned well... it's a crapshoot. Like telling your kid he's adopted, the reaction is never the same. Some kids might thrive knowing that their parents are related, others might grow up weird.

It's also a near universal taboo to be gay, hey most of us here are fine with s&m and consentual slavery. Taboos are trickey. But as long as your actions don't directly hurt anyone then why should it be illegal?

[Leffy]

the brother sister hell no. because typically the emotional relationship built between the two turning into that means somethings wrong upstairs and because its just......... its gross and just wrong. cousins.... still icky to me but seems more ok. and the other forms of it? again problem upstairs and fucking disgusting.

in all honesty the creation of this topic and the urge to discuss it offend me. but you're asking for oppinions so heres mine.

[UberFische]

ok... initially I thought "ick, not gunna say anything" but it made me think...

1) religion: if you're "spiritual" and believe in the bible it is wrong because the bible says it's wrong. Although it uses circular reasoning: Incest is wrong because it's incest

2) biology: (if it's a blood-relation) each genetic code has strengths and weaknesses, if two similar codes are paired, their offspring could have a higher strength and a lower weakness: ie let's say a brother/sister pair both have a high natural hand-eye coordination, but both have an under-par immune system, their offspring could have better coordination, but could also have an ever worse immune system. This is why pure breed dogs develop health problems (example: dalmatians get hip dysplasia, and go deaf)

3) legal: I don't know for sure, but I think every state has laws against at least immediate family cases.

4) my logic (yeah, kinda scary, me having a logical answer): attraction is a natural instinct, but is also called an animal instinct = lower brain, humans are supposed to be upper brain, we're supposed to control it, we're not supposed to lower ourselves to the level of animals and mate with whatever we find attractive (intellectual thinking there) but we do every damn day.

I've met step-siblings that went that way, and I was officially weirded out for a few months. To them it was all normal, so I kinda just tried to forget them being related whenever I saw them. Who am I to tell anyone "Thou shalt not..." when I've committed comparable sinful acts of animal aggression.

In the end... it's illegal, immoral, and may cause psychological trauma, if you're fine with that... go somewhere else that'll accept you and live there.

(2 pts for me for rambling on this long with no actual answer)


edit: and if Kitty! reads this: THIS is another reason why young readers should not be on the forums

[Death Dragon2]

To the Bible remark- If Adam & Eve were the first humans, who'd their children reproduce with?

[Plunder Down-Under]

Incest... none for me thanks. Its just one of those things where you go 'its wrong' without thinking or even being told that. But when pressed for a reason all you can come up with are speculations such as 'its gross' or third hand knowledge 'scientists say blah blah' or someone elses opinion 'My mother taught me its bad'.

Is it wrong or is it a social construct such as wearing clothes and marriage? Love is blind, but is you sibling visible?

My Opinion: I wouldnt do or consider it, but I wouldnt judge(much) two intelligent consenting people who would be considered a perfectly normal couple if they werent. related

[Seolta]

To the Bible remark- If Adam & Eve were the first humans, who'd their children reproduce with?

Well, in Abel's case nobody...but Cain went to the Land of Nod, and there were already other people living there.

As to the incest thing, it's been proven that you're far less likely to be attracted to someone sexually if you spent a lot of time around them up to about kindergarten, whether they're blood kin or not. We're hard-wired not to breed with our parents or siblings...though some people manage to bypass that.

[Sehson]

Yes, but how about having children from incest? Besides it being a near-universal human taboo, there's reasons for incest laws. For what relationships, if any is this in OK?


Actually not true.

Biologically speaking. All animals including humans have a need to procreate.

Humans have setup Taboo's about incest through various thoughts and morals but it is not in any way universal.

Incest is one of those topics that is now often not talked about except in the negative, and more often then not shunned all together.

Incest is actually alot more common then most people think because of the taboo's especially amongst siblings or close family members of similar age. Most people of "western" civilized upbringing try to taboo-ize it out of existence but it still happens. Biology and curiosity over-rule society...

We all pretty much know the biological reasons against incest. But truth be told, look at your royal families, there all inter-related At best they were marring they're second to 5th cousin at worse a sibling because that was the only way to ensure the royal lines were pure. Most often it was a niece or nephew. In africa there is a tribe of "ostrich" people, that back in the 80's they finally started seeing the need to bring in people from outside the village, because of the deformities and contact with the outside world.

Now as far as incest goes if we are talking an adult molesting a child... then that is sick reguardless if it is family or not, the incest factor just ups the level of mental disfunction of the adult.

If you are talking about 2 siblings or other close (in age) family this can occur as natural sexual exploration. And while it should not be condoned, It should not be an ostrasizable offense and the behavior should be corrected with mild hand. After all we are talking about normal nature not deviant behavior. After a certian age if raised in standard western society though the beviour will stem from more and more deviantness as the individuals age. IE 12yr olds playing doctor normal 24 yrs getting the grove on... yea theri not quite right in the head, unless they were raised by sheep in the bottom of a well...

[Sehson]

To the Bible remark- If Adam & Eve were the first humans, who'd their children reproduce with?

No, Adam and Eve were the first of "Gods" children. note there were other humans... the Others of pagan beliefs.. and there was also Lilith whom was exiled from the garden.

Cain is supposed to have met up with his Aunt Lilith and the started having babies... but there were several other sons that went out and married women of the others.

Me... I'm a child of the others

[Ecchi_Kitty]

Define 'Incest'. Mother, father, brother, sister, no; too close a relationship. However, is several cultures, your cross cousin is considered to be your ideal mate. Cross cousin... damn, now I fail to recall. It's either your parent's opposite gender's child, ie, your mom's brother's kid, or your dad's sister's kid. Or, it's your aunt's son/uncle's daughter. Any case, taking a look and the genetic similarities for a cross cousin, with variences of X chromosome and the Y, shows a genetic idenity of an average 1/3 match. Meaning that you an your cousin have a similar genetic code, which tends to decrease miscarriages, but diffrent enough to limit inbreeding.

As to inbreeding, cousins, or even siblings, having a child together does not automatically make for freakish mutant offspring. It's when the practice continues for several generations that the genetic line starts to stagnate. If you want to marry your cousin, probally not a problem. However, if your parents were cousins, your grandparent's were also cousins.... might want to think about crossing with another genetic line...

As for religion, go back to the Old Testiment, see how many people DIDN'T marry their cousins... pretty low percentage.
Best to read the whole series, mostly because it's funny, but the lower explination get's into it more... The Holy Bibble (http://holybibble.net/latest.php?id=208)

[Ecchi_Kitty]

Me... I'm a child of the others

I don't suppose you hae a link to that speech/poem/essay/whatever it is? I tried to find a copy somewhere, but didn't find anything relivant.... well, found EvilBible.com, but not quite what I was looking for.

[Mike Taylor]

Not real fond of the idea of having sex with blood relations closer than second cousins. The smaller the gene pool, the greater the chance of birthing a child with genetic defects. Plus, in the community I lived in, incest was part and parcel of a number of other problems within a family which tended to include rape, physical, and mental abuse. A girl that went to school with me was a victim of that particular house of horrors. It took several years of counseling and some big time legal smackdown by the courts to extract her from that mess.

[Ruestir]

I'm going to use a bit stronger language than I've seen other's post here. It's OFFENSIVE to even think about. I've been debating even posting to this because I'm genuinely confused that such a thing is even open for debate. There is talk here as if the people who object to incest have somehow been convinced that it's not ok. Did those of you who think it is ever stop and think that you have been convinced to think that way? Siting single generation couplings statistically bring about no abnormalities is rediculous because where does it stop? Do you say to your kids then "sorry honey, you and your brother can't do what your mother/aunt and I did because your children might be born with a 3rd eye." They'll just site the same statistical b.s. that you used to justify your decision. Let's also examine this from the other angle. Inbreeding will ALWAYS increase the likelyhood that negative recessive genes will become prominent. It doesn't make it better. There is no good reason to do it. So you've satisfied your urge for this sexual deviance. Then what? Once this kind of line has been crossed it's difficult at best to go back. Just do yourself and the rest of the human race a favor and marry outside the family. Broaden the gene pool. We'll all benefit from that.

[Mike Taylor]

Sadly, this isn't the first message board I've been to where the topic has been raised, Ruestir.

[kitty!]

It's legal in europe to marry your cousin, and I think in parts of america it's legal too. Mostly, brother-sister and parent-child is forbidden because of sexual abuse and the squick facter of thinking of your own sibling in a sexual manner. (I have a hard enough time thinking of kids my sister's age as attractive because they all remind me of my SISTER. And we're only 18 months apart in age.)

But personally, cousin marriage isn't all that gross to me, because who here has an intimate familial relationship with their cousins? Maybe I'm just the only one here who's cousins are practically strangers, but whatever.

The weirdest thing, in my opinion, is how an adopted child and their parent can have a relationship. I think a prominent Hollywood figure had an adopted child and then when she grew up they had a romantic relationship (ew)

It's also legal for adopted siblings/step siblings to be in a relationship. Weird, innit?

but I'm morally ambiguous about this if it has no sexual abuse overtones to it. I find it bizzare to think of my cousins, second cousins and sister in a romantic way, but if it floats someone else's boat, I'd just turn an blind eye. That is, if there's no abuse involved.

[Wayne]

I think that here in the States that it is against the law to marry first cousins but I am not sure. After that most people don't seem to care.

I myself do not care for the idea of it and would never promote it. If I saw it somewhere in my family I would say something against it. Why? I just feel that way. Why? I really have no idea why but that is how I feel.

Also remember the trouble that Jerry Lee Lewis caused marrying his cousin.

[Sehson]

Depends on the state a couple 1st cousins are legal game.

And Reustir Farler indicated this is an intellectual argument. Yes the topic is offensive to some, but it is something that does happen in real life offensive or not. And it is also a topic that does occur readily in highschoool and college psych classes.

The taboo on incest is culturally based not biologically.

There are tribal peoples where coming of age involves having sex with the head male or female of the tribe, the person coming of age is taught proper sexual technique. In these tribes the head person has sex with any and all people that come of age regardless of familial ties. So it is possible that The head male of the tribe will teach his grand-daughter niece etc all about sex, and the same goes for the head female with grand son, nephew. And depending on how long lived and permiscous... it may even include sons and daughters... Lets face some of pretty old people are still managing to have healthy kids.

[JennieB]

Sorry guys, I try to keep everything open but some stuff has gone a bit far.
This looks like the third thing I'm going to put on the "Gone too far" button.
#1. putting halo's in Jennie baced characters er... parts.
#2. talking about someones excrement
#3. "yay incest"