Bitches At The Table

[Mike Taylor]

Over on RPG.net, a woman going by the name of Hollian has created a "Bitches at the Table" Cafepress (http://www.cafepress.com/bitchesattable) shop selling t-shirts encouraging female gamers to play.

It was done in response to a thread elsewhere on the board where another gamer relates a tale about one of his players refusing to game with women. And the line the gamer got from his buddy was, "No bitches at the table."

The originating thread is here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?referrerid=&t=327871&highlight=) , but you must be a member of RPG.net to view it in the forum where it is posted.

All the same, I'd like to encourage the women gamers on the board to show their support.

[Wayne]

Why would some nut job not want to game with women? Is he afraid that he will catch cooties?

[Mike Taylor]

Could be any number of reasons. Macho asshole is the most obvious. Hollian implies that she's been made to feel unwelcome in at least a couple of gaming groups.

I PM'd her with links and an invitation to Jennie's webstrip & board as well, so hopefully she'll crop up and give more insight into things.

[Leffy]

i'd do it if people would be patient enough to teach me. i ALWAYS hated being the chick at my friend's LAN party in charge of "taking care of the girls". and somehow they all dated vapid idiots with lower intelligence then the cheese dip.

[Mike Taylor]

At it's core, gaming isn't that hard. Depending on the system, set-up can be a bit time consuming, though. With my new players, I always tried to encourage them to find a character type that most matched their personality. I usually handled the little bit of mathematics (statistics) at first, but let them pick out their character's skills.

Some of the best fun I ever had gaming was GM-ing my fellow students (and my professor!) in my Creative Process class. The player group was predominantly female, with only two guys. The game was set in a sort of dystopian future where education of anyone but the wealthy was a crime. The group consisted of teachers and pupils in an illegal "underground" school. The school had been discovered and was about to be overrun by government troops. It was great fun sitting back and watching the women players quickly organize a plan of escape and outwit the troops. The guys simply wanted to bust some heads, so they got their fill of that.

[Crazeyal]

Well..

To start off with...

It's kinda like the "Niggah" NI**** thing. My best friend is a black man. Hell.. he calls ME "Niggah" (To which I counter that "I'm white trash.. dammit!") It's acceptable in certain groups, and situations, but the word BITCH is still a gender insult.

Also, there are jerks everywhere. Gamers come from all walks of life these days, but it still attracts the socially inept. Some men can't deal with close proximity to a female without being an idiot. Then there is the Machismo factor.

Mostly, I'd just say that one bad experience can LAST. One idiot can ruin the game for anyone.

[Mike Taylor]

It's an all too common experience that I wish would go away.

[Leffy]

they just fear the boobs.

[Wayne]

I guess that this is just my lack of knowing the gaming world. I would think that these guys who, in general, get very little female contact would love and welcome girls to the games.

And besides the obvious San Fran sterotype what guy doesn't like boobs?!?!?!?

[Compton]

i'd do it if people would be patient enough to teach me. i ALWAYS hated being the chick at my friend's LAN party in charge of "taking care of the girls". and somehow they all dated vapid idiots with lower intelligence then the cheese dip.

Meh, my wife is intesnely intelligent. But she sucks at the LAN parties. FPS games are not her friend. But she still has fun. But we often play in teams, so she just teams up with me (a certain level of skill comes from having worked support for a game console and I played A LOT there)

I must say though that its people like that guy who fits the mold of the RPG gamer stereotype. As in NEVER GONNA GET LAID WITHOUT OVERPAYING FOR IT stereotype.

[Mike Taylor]

Having reread the original thread, the guy in question, named "Bob" for reasons of privacy, is supposedly happily married. He's just a sexist asshole.

[Wayne]

He could have a controling wife that doesn't let him go near other women so he acts like a jerk.

[Mike Taylor]

Nah, I have it on good authority he's just a nitwit. By the way, the guy who initially complained about Bob has since ditched him (No Bobs at the Table) and started up a group that was 50% women.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=348920

That's the thread where Hollian announced her shirts.

[Wayne]

That's cool that there are people out there smart enough to dump the idiots and let anyone game.

[Kamn]

I D&D with a female in tow for more than 2 years now. Personaly, I like her, but in the gaming world, be sure she isnt watching you intensively for 3 rounds. As a player, she came with 0 knowledge of the game, and still relies on me and her boyfriend to help her when she levels. She isnt stupid (attends the best high-school in the country), she just doesnt want to remember all this. Maybe bob had too much women like her?

[Crazeyal]

Eh... HAve to call BS on that one. There ARE gender specific problems, but on the whole, I get BACKSTABBED a lot less from women players. There are bad players, weak players, and just plain old dumbasses. It doesn't matter who or what you are, it just matters if you came to enjoy yourself with other people or you came to enjoy yourself at the EXPENSE of other people.

[Leffy]

see if i could get my brain to work as far as HOW to play, i would be one of those people you'd hate.
cause all i'd do is crazy ass shit to keep you from having an excuse to stop for now, and sheer wacky escapades of absolutely pointless stuff. all in the name of fun and as a bane for boredom

[Mike Taylor]

see if i could get my brain to work as far as HOW to play, i would be one of those people you'd hate.
cause all i'd do is crazy ass shit to keep you from having an excuse to stop for now, and sheer wacky escapades of absolutely pointless stuff. all in the name of fun and as a bane for boredom

Gotta be careful with that kind of play. It can get the instigator kicked from the group.

[Plunder Down-Under]

Chaotic Neutral!

Thats about the extent of my D&D knowledge

[Mike Taylor]

Chaotic Neutral!

Thats about the extent of my D&D knowledge

*DING! DING! DING!*

You just described Crazyal!

Don Pardoe, tell Plunder what he's won!!!

[Plunder Down-Under]

I reckon Id be Chaotic Good.

I hope I won a car, game show vacations rarely interest me

[Mike Taylor]

You've won the 2008 Mongolian Language Edition of the Encyclopedia Stupidica plus a one year supply of Garfalk's Spicy Italian Belly Button Lint!

[Plunder Down-Under]

Hmm... someone would buy that onebay

Along with my air guitar and toast with elvis' face on it

[Wayne]

Cool man, I always wanted to start buying other people's air guitars.

[Sehson]

see if i could get my brain to work as far as HOW to play, i would be one of those people you'd hate.
cause all i'd do is crazy ass shit to keep you from having an excuse to stop for now, and sheer wacky escapades of absolutely pointless stuff. all in the name of fun and as a bane for boredom

You'd fit in with the group I RP with....

My character's tend to be a little off... My current character was asked for papers. Well my char didn't have papers that the military type would accept being from a different continent so my char made a paper origami crane for the MP.... Needless to say half the XP I get for this character is simply from the laugh factor I cause the GM....

I mean you gotta love a character whom can do anime leaps by the way that runs head first into a squad of charging well armed troops and right after he passes the front of the group leaps into the air screaming "FIRE IN THE HOLE" as he throws 2 fusion grenades to the ground... 12' radius Plasma explosion... Yea I love being unpredictable... My char is a crazy... and sadly he's the sanest one inthe group:dgrin:

[Plunder Down-Under]

Sounds like some crazy fun Sehson

[Ecchi_Kitty]

Beware the Super Happy Funball of DOOM!

Starwars game. Friend was playing a simple pilot from the outer rim. General well rounded charecter, nothing really standing out. Friend had, a couple days earlier, picked up a good sized rubber ball out of a vending machine, folled around bouncing it off the walls and such. On a whime, gave the same ball to his charecter, so both in game and out could kill downtime by bouncing the ball around.
In game, round the corner, and there's a squad a Imperial Soilders aiming at us. Sadly, we'd been forced to leave most of our weaposn back on our ship, so while the rest of us are trying to come up with makeshift weapons or find an alternate route, he wings the rubber ball at the Imperials.
Critical hit.
Imperial reaction? Critical fumble.
Trips, runs into a friend.
Friend fumbles, weapon misfire.
Misfired weapon hits a friend.... critical hit... with a grenade launcher.
Ball rebounds, knocks another Imps helmet askew.
Another series of critical hits and fumbles.
In moments, the entire squad is in disarray.
As we run thru to make our escape, friend makes sure to grab the Super Happy Funball of DOOM!

Couple adventures later, friend was captured, strip of his usual weapons, and taken up to the bridge of a star destroyer to be questioned by the captain. Takes out the SHFBoD, gives it a toss, hits a control panel. Thrusters fire, ship lurches, bridge crew mostly lose their footing. Friend manages to grab a blaster int eh confusion, blast a few more control panels, grab his secret weapon, and escape. With all the control damage, ship ended up ramming into a moon and being destroyed.

The SuperHappy FunBall of DOOM showed up a few more times, but those wer the most dramatic two. Though come to think of it, think it broke a sith lord's nose... guy deflected blaster fire, but flubed the SHFBoD....

[Plunder Down-Under]

Whoa... just Whoa...

*goes out to buy a rubber ball*

[moreta]

I havn't played in something like 15-20 years. I'd love to get started again, but because of my work schedule, the length of time I've been out, and my age, I doubt if it will happen. Does anybody play AD&D anymore?

[Mike Taylor]

Like yourself, I have the desire, but not the time.

Yes, people still play AD&D, but now it's just called D&D and will be on its 4th edition in 2008. It's undergone some major changes in the jump from 2nd Edition to 3rd (less so from 3rd to 3.5), so you probably won't recognize a character sheet apart from the six stats and hit points.

[Sehson]

that and the fact if you were a die hard 1st/2nd ed player you have no clue what anything is after.... unless you play d20 games in genreal.:rolleyes:

[idleknight]

Many people still play Ad&D infact if you already had the rules books many of the modules are now available as pdfs for free or about 5 dollars. The older books are also available on ebay and other places.

Or treat yourself and go out and get a shiny set of books for version 3.5 or wait for version 4 which is due out ia year or so.

Personally im sticking at version 3 for now as my i have 2 sets of the main books and they are all in mint condition. It works as a system and i dont feel the need to get the latest.

As for being an older gamer you should be able to still find groups, I find it's more important in some ways to game as you get older as life is more stressful and it is harder to find time to spend with your friends. A weekly roleplaying session is a great way to catch up and chill out.

On the battle of the sexes I think female gamers are great in both tabletop and larp. My group is generally me running and 2 guys and two gals.

[Seolta]

Or treat yourself and go out and get a shiny set of books for version 3.5 or wait for version 4 which is due out ia year or so.

A lot of the 3.5 books can be found online as PDFs if you know where to look...I've got about 36 of 'em on my laptop thanks to little brothers with dubious morals.

[Mike Taylor]

A lot of the 3.5 books can be found online as PDFs if you know where to look...I've got about 36 of 'em on my laptop thanks to little brothers with dubious morals.

Given that I've got a couple of friends who work in the industry and like to get paid for their efforts (and unless you're one of the legends, you don't get paid much), I can't really advocate this myself.

[Seolta]

Given that I've got a couple of friends who work in the industry and like to get paid for their efforts (and unless you're one of the legends, you don't get paid much), I can't really advocate this myself.


*nods* I actually wouldn't normally either...in my case, we couldn't get hold of either of the people with near-complete collections of the books(or rather, couldn't get hold of one person, and the other couldn't get hold of his books on account of they'd been confiscated), and my brother(s) said "well, I've got a lot of 'em on the computer," and since the most we had otherwise were a couple of campaign-idea books, we took him up on it. In addition to the whole "supporting the industry" thing, actual books are better, especially with groups, because if two people need to look things up in separate books, they can do so at the same time, instead of fighting over the 'puter :)

[Hekale]

I am a female DM who learned to play entirely with male players. I can remember some very frustrated characters of mine--I didn't have the intricate emo backstory, but I did try to make real people, and their games had no real place for that. They wanted to kick doors down and rescue princesses, which is all well and good, but a little less in-depth than what I would have liked.

Now I DM my own campaign, and my group is pretty balanced--three guys (two notorious powergamers--yikes for a noob DM) who are experienced players and two girls (plus me) who are avid roleplayers but new to the d20 system. The girls have these amazing characters but aren't configured to be maximally effective in combat--and the boys have beautiful stats but aren't prepared for any real roleplaying. We have a blast. Rather than just having conflicting playstyles, the styles merged and now we have two girls getting a huge kick out of what they can do in combat while being sure they're in combat for good reason, and three boys who are just discovering that their characters have personalities and they may not want to fight, and the interactions are great, and just watching them get up in the morning and eat breakfast is hilarious.

That's probably best-case scenario (assuming that all guys are interested in stats and all girls are interested in story--not always the case). I think Bob may have had (or, you know, imagined) a bad experience with a girl player who wanted to play in a very different style than he did. I've had girls cry at the table, in character, and a lot of guys can't handle that in any context; or, Bob could be worried that his character's actions would be offensive (ironic) and doesn't want someone there to tell him no.

Notice that both of these reasons still leave him as a sexist jerk, but a more comprehansible sexist jerk.

[Mike Taylor]

*pounces the newbie*

Hi!

Welcome to the board, Hekale. Thanks for the post.

[Crazeyal]

DOGPILE ON THE NEWBIE!!!


Welcome... :al:

[Ruestir]

I played in a group where we had a couple of girls join us while in college, and I agree that it definitely makes for a different dynamic. Having never had girl roleplayers in a group before, we had to make that adjustment and it was interesting. I'd even go as far to say that it made more fun for me because they actually brought some roleplaying ability to the table as opposed to the rest of us.

[dthsapprntc]

After a few years of pen and paper games, and playing with a couple of different groups I have to say that having a mix of male and female players is almost a must. I have played with a group that was all male, and though one or two of us played on occasion a female character, the games tended to be more focused on action than on character development. With a mixed group there seems to be more of a balance, provided of course that the players know how to roleplay. In my current group there are 3 guys and 3 girls (2 guy players and 3 girls with male dm), though normally 2 of the girls can't make it. Yes we play with 2 players gone because of our schedules with work and whatnot, if we waited for everyone to be available we would play maybe once a year.

Anyhow, with a mixed group the character dynamics come to the front in my experience, which brings out a new level of hilarity to the game as the characters develop relationships, either hate or love. And i have to say that roleplaying a romantic relationship between characters is much easier when the other player is of the opposite sex, at least it is for me. personal preferences might alter this.

So my long and drawn out point is that there is nothing wrong with female players, in fact, due to 2 of my groups female players tend to not show up we are currently looking for another female player to even the balance between male and female characters that play on a regular basis. Yes there are good and bad players, but i don't think that has anything to do with what sex they are.

And, i would just like to say, although d&d, or any other pen and paper game, can be learned by anyone, not everyone are capable of understanding it. As example, i know i player who, even though we have done our best to teach him, and he has played in almost 50 sessions, he still has problems following the game flow, or even remember what dice to roll when. I know for a fact that he is not stupid, because I work with him, but when it comes to d&d, he has no clue, and has consequently lost interest.

That was a long ramble, hope it makes a little bit of sense

YAY DINNER TIME.

peace.

:drool:

[Mike Taylor]

My, this thread gets a lot of attention. Welcome aboard, dthsapprntc.

[dthsapprntc]

Thank yah. :toast:

[Death Dragon2]

*Pats newbies gently on the head with my front handpaw while making sure not to squish them into the ground* Hiya! I'm the resident Dragon, and I'm a bit on the tall side in my natural form, being the same height as the Rex from Jurassic Park: The Lost World on all fours, and about double that when walking on two legs. I weigh about 200 tons in that form as well, though I can adjust my size when I want to.

[Plunder Down-Under]

Peace to you too evil scarey cat.

Im just an ordinary guy, yup. Nothing threatening, im even pretty short. Yup... nothing to worry about here. :D

[Death Dragon2]

^Yeah, don't mind him. He's Happenis', the local tentacle monster, pet/slave/love doll.

[dthsapprntc]

eh. I've seen worse.:dgrin:

[Ebony Phoenix]

This is subject that is quite important to me, but coming from an online gaming back ground (xbox live) instead of table top gaming. Since I started on live years back I've seen male gamers subjectify and hammer female gamers left right and centre. I do have some great female gamers on my list who do hold their own but there are times they refuse to even speak cos of one particular gerbil fancier in the room.
This is always going to be a point of contention especially as Microsoft in it's infinite wisdom decided that rather then try and police it they would create the Girl gamers group for females only which to me strikes up a very troubling precedent as to prevent discrimination the created a group that is proud that is is discriminative....
Situation:
Worlds gone to hell in hand basket crime is rife, rape and murders common place do you:
A: Employ more police and enforce the laws set down
B: Create a safe zone where you fence off the innocent and leave the rest to the criminals.

I'm sorry I know this is only second post and already ranting :s. Just this is a pet hate of mine and reason myself and several friends set up a mini group we call The ADF or Anti-Discrimination Front it's huge task but we're hoping to educate a few of the less indoctinated gits that a female or male black white asian abled or disabled can kick their ass's just as well as a white middle class male. We like to game and we like to game with people who like to game but we don't have time for narrow minded bigots.

My personnal gaming motto for group

XX or XY all that matters is the XYBA

(xyba is the buttons on a 360 controller for those who don't know)

[sableagle]

i'd do it if people would be patient enough to teach me. i ALWAYS hated being the chick at my friend's LAN party in charge of "taking care of the girls". and somehow they all dated vapid idiots with lower intelligence then the cheese dip.So stick bread sticks into them and chat to the cheese.

The tabletop RPG crowd I used to know had conversations about which radioastrophysicist's research they'd been asked to read ...

... and some of them were INCREDIBLY stupid. They didn't KNOW it, of course. They were just the sort of person you occasionally need to grab and headbutt to get their attention and explain little details like "A red-top rag would call it a platoon because it's the nearest sized unit name that their audience would actually recognise," or "There are actually human beings in this world who size strangers up for a fight when they meet them." Seriously.

[wolfie]

There is at least one group in the real live world who's MO is exactly the same.
Since I don't want to start anything political that is as far as I am going to say.

*Throws shiny stuff and pixi stix in the air to distract everyone from what I just said*

[Silverharp]

An ex girlfriend of mine was downright shocked when I invited her to join me at a fantasy LARP. Turns out that in order to join her old gaming group (dominated by guys, oddly enough) she had to degrade herself by giving them a "how sexy can I act show".
Again, I can not fucking understand this....I was ALWAYS happy to see some estrogen at the table when we broke out the 2nd ed rules, or Star Wars, or whatever....I love my bros, but I don't LOVE my bros, you know?

[Crazeyal]

uh..

She's stopped associating with those idiots.. RIGHT???

I know.. EX and all.. but JEEZ!

[Silverharp]

I belive that she did, but all in all they deserved each other.
Anymore, the only thing that bothers me about it was those morons giving the rest of us healthy geeks a bad name.

I mean, bloody hell, if you want girl geeks gettin all "Hey baby" then go join the Cam!
(Member in good standing since 1994, BTW)

[moreta]

I was in high school when D&D started making it's appearance in my part of the world. I remember asking a good friend of mine, (male) if I could join in, and was told essentially that girls don't know how to play. So I continued reading Isaac Asimov, and Jules Verne, and after I left home, and met my future (now ex) husband started playing. I only ever had one problem. A friend of my (ex) husband's played two characters at once, and they had their collective butts whooped by my "wimpy" half-elf thief. After that, he refused to play if I was at the table. Hee hee. On a side note, I have recently reconnected with my high school friend, and although he doesn't remember saying that, we are now dating. *great big toothy smile

[Mike Taylor]

Welcome back, moreta! Glad to see things have worked out. :)

[moreta]

Eh...so far, so good. I have been jumping in quite a bit, but, I've gotten all creative, and it's hard to knit and type at the same time. Goodness, I love getting paid to sit on my behind and play at work.

[Detritus]

Appologies in advance for length and being a somewhat off topic rant

I've played with good and i've played with bad. gender had/has nothing to do with which was which.

it just happens that the worst experience i've ever had while gaming was with a particular female. But that was b/c of her personality (or lack thereof) not her gender. put together a whole bunch of traits and quirks that would give ANY gamer a bad name, with the belief that her sleeping with the DM should make not only her character but HER immune to any consequences, in game or out!! being unable to engineer a different group of which Brett (our first and primary DM) was a part but she wasn't (for most of the 2 years they were she'd go ballistic if he did anything "fun" without her so they traveled as a pair for the most part), or for that matter a workable group without either of them. was pretty much the only reason she was even barely tolerated.
essentially the friendship the rest of us had for brett was stronger than our hatred of the, vapid, 6 foot tall, blonde, set of Double Ds he was dating.

i should make clear that before posting the above desciption i called and talked it over with my wife so that it would be an accurate desciption and not a hateful one.

To be direct the girl in question discovered soon after puberty, that she could overcome her absolute lack of any level of intelligence. by offering herself up to the right/opportune male. After that point, it seems there ceased to be "anything there" mentally except the parts that dealt with exploiting her sexuality.