Your Favorite Out of Print Role-playing Game?

[Mike Taylor]

What discontinued role-playing game still holds a special place in your memories?

[Crazeyal]

Villans and Vigilanties

[Mike Taylor]

Ah yes, the old game by FGU. What passes for our local game shop actually has some of the old V&V adventures for sale.

[Ecchi_Kitty]

Sadly, I don't know the name of it.... 'Space Station andomada' or some such.... so not certain is out of print... was a slap-stick based game where RP was built to being a running gag of cliche. Charecter classes were along the lines of Union SuperHero, Lone Ranger, Rambo, Trenchcoat, Conan....

Let's see.... Lone Ranger class got major bonuses to handgun, but had to pay for silver bullets, and could only shoot to kill if was high noon....

Rambo class was immune to ranged weapons, but only at short range...

Trenchcoat could pull anything out of their trenchcoat/top hat/utility belt. However, what they pulled out might not always be what they wanted....

Union members got all the benifits of being in a Union, but also had to follow all Union rules.... even the insane ones. "Sorry guys, I've been fighting evil for four hours straight. Union rules require that I take a half hour lunch before continueing...."

[Gorbash]

Cyber punk would be #1 (not this new D20 bullshit or that shadowrun craptastic system that is similar)
Then followed by Morro Project
And Paranoia
And Birthright
And Rolemaster
And Call of Cthulhu (also not this new D20 bullshit)
And Battletech
Ahh the list goes on, in fact, almost every game I play is either out of print or turned into generic D20 crap shadows of themselves..... sigh.

[Plunder Down-Under]

Ecchi's game sounds fun. I'd be a trenchcoat.

[Mike Taylor]

Gorbash, you'll be delighted to know that Call of Cthulhu is still very much alive. It's on its sixth edition. The d20 version was done to celebrate the 20th anniversary of the original game, not replace it.

Likewise, there's Paranoia XP and the Classic BattleTech RPG. R Talsorian also released Cyberpunk V3, though 2020 is still available. Rolemaster is still around, too.

[Gorbash]

Ive looked into the new versions of all those and I must say, all of them disgusted me, they are no longer the same games, theyve all been refitted to make the players the kill maschines or to be more simplistic to draw in a new crowd.
Case in point, rolemasters new edition has only a third of the tables the old one did, cyberpunks new stuff allows way to powerfull a character from the get go, and the new stuff for CoC, well, it used to be "is that a zombie? oh shi..."
Now its "is that a zombie? I can take this one, you guys just watch"
And Im sorry, but at what point did dynamite become the last resort?
In CoC dynamite was the end of the day clean up for every situation!

[Leffy]

that one game! with the playing! and the fun! and the game stuffs!

:P

i felt left out.

[Mike Taylor]

that one game! with the playing! and the fun! and the game stuffs!

:P

i felt left out.

I'll be the school teacher and you be the naughty student....

Wait, that's a different kind of role-playing game. :dgrin:

[Leffy]

are you going to spank me with your yard stick?

[Crazeyal]

I never said it was a yard...

Long that is...

;)

[Mike Taylor]

are you going to spank me with your yard stick?

I prefer a hands on approach. :D

[Sehson]

I prefer the feather duster........:eek:

Uh yea what were we talking about again:dp:

[Gorbash]

wow, that got derailed fast, but I cant complain on where it crashed into.....;)

[Crazeyal]

Well it IS the DP forum...

Surprisingly, there wasn't an orgy at DragonCon...

Geting back to topic..

I haven't roleplayed in almost 6 months, and a few years before that (excluding DC!)

Tell ya the truth?? I miss D&D... pure roleplay goodness.

[Mike Taylor]

Now, if you like the old school feel of the pre-3rd Edition AD&D games, there's a line out there called Castles & Crusades which does a lot to recapture the old game, but cleans up a lot of the problem mechanics. In fact, you can lift creatures and treasures and whatnot right from the old AD&D books and drop them right in with very little conversion work to be done.

[jameslgrant]

Gotta go with Gorbash here. Paranoia was just an awesome game when, after months of preparation, we FINALLY got a game going.

Am I the only person who's utterly abandoned paper/pen RPGs for the wondrous ones you can play on a computer?

[Crazeyal]

Nah.. the group I was with couldn't afford computers as a whole and we liked getting together. Liking EACH OTHER is what didn't last...

[Plunder Down-Under]

I nlyplay computer games but thats because theres no-one to play pen/paper games with

[Crazeyal]

Yeah well.. look where you live!

[Mike Taylor]

Gotta go with Gorbash here. Paranoia was just an awesome game when, after months of preparation, we FINALLY got a game going.

Am I the only person who's utterly abandoned paper/pen RPGs for the wondrous ones you can play on a computer?

My machine is too ancient and underpowered to run any of the ones out there today, plus I made a solemn promise not to get into MMOs on the grounds that if I did, no one I knew would ever see me again!

[Jackob]

Adventure! Great pulp goodness.

[Noverogi]

I miss starwars d6 and just about anything that got assimilated into the d20 borg not to mention Vampire before it evolved into that Major angst fest called nWoD,VTR and WTF(Malks became a lesser clan BLASHEMPY!)

[xX-ALTAIR-Xx]

Well it IS the DP forum...
Surprisingly, there wasn't an orgy at DragonCon...

O_O
*builds bigger fort with even stronger walls*
REPENT! THE END IS NEAR! REPENT!

[Crazeyal]

O_O
*builds bigger fort with even stronger walls*
REPENT! THE END IS NEAR! REPENT!*Gooses Altair*

:lol:

Wow.. ten feet!!

[xX-ALTAIR-Xx]

How the hell did you get in my fort!? More importantly, why would you goose a minor? O_o *mental note, al is bi, stay away at all costs* by the away, i was just surprised that it was confirmed there was no orgy. i just always assume theres an orgy at pretty much every con theres an orgy, but the fact that it was confirmed at dragon con that there WAS no orgy just took me aback.

[Crazeyal]

Dude.. you made walls, but forgot the $@#@#ing CEILING!!!

Who said I'm Bi? I just like to make straight people jump!

[xX-ALTAIR-Xx]

Dude.. you made walls, but forgot the $@#@#ing CEILING!!!

Who said I'm Bi? I just like to make straight people jump!

*looks up* #&$@ %&#$ @*!^&#$*#$%^#@*#%^& argh!
*'asplodes*

[Crazeyal]

The Orgy was cancelled by the Fire Marshal...:(

[Plunder Down-Under]

Rofl

*rolls around*

[RazorJAK]

I miss starwars d6 and just about anything that got assimilated into the d20 borg not to mention Vampire before it evolved into that Major angst fest called nWoD,VTR and WTF(Malks became a lesser clan BLASHEMPY!)

Ummm, when WASN'T Vampire angsty?

[Mike Taylor]

Well, there was that brief period in the beginning when the game launched....

[Noverogi]

When the myspace wasn't around (back when despire and sadness wasn't around every corner... okay yes I did always play a Malkie... but it was still not the angst it is now)

[Crazeyal]

Ummm, when WASN'T Vampire angsty?When *I* played it...:evilgrin:

[Mike Taylor]

When *I* played it...:evilgrin:

angst: a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity

I've read your stories, Al. I think you were the source of a LOT of angst-- and indigestion! :lol:

[Crazeyal]

Hey.. I only caused angst .. uh.. well that is to say.. I ..damn..

[Jackob]

Dark Ages: Vampire wasn't angsty.

[Plunder Down-Under]

1 Point for Mike, that was a good call

[Mike Taylor]

AWISE FROM YOUR GWABE!!!

*thread bursts from the ground and begins shaking off the soil*

Since we have some new posters, I thought I'd do a little pre-emptive thread necromancy so that a duplicate wasn't made.

[Jamcat]

I have two...

TSR's Star Frontiers. And before that was TSR's Gamma World.

Actually Gamma world was my first pen & paper RPG. All my other friends had Dungeons & Dragons. Plus, I like sci-fi more than fantasy.

Then after Gamma World died, I got into Star Frontiers.

[RazorJAK]

You might be interested in knowing that Metamorphosis Alpha, the game which was TSR's precursor to Gamma World, recently came out with a 4th edition (http://www.metamorphosisalpha.net/).

Much like Jack Vance's 1950 anthology, "The Dying Earth" gave the framework for a lot of the original magic system of D&D; Andre Norton's 1952 novel, "Starman's Son", is pretty much the whole mapwork for Gamma World. Give it a read if you haven't already.

How many of the old-schoolers remember the page of AD&D/GW conversion guidelines that TSR put in the 1st edition AD&D DM's guide? Oh, how I remember, the hodge-podge campaign we had going back in the early days.

[Jackob]

Later this year, my two favorite out-of-print RPGs will be Warhammer Fantasy RPG 2nd Edition and Warhammer 40k/Dark Heresy.

[Sehson]

How many of the old-schoolers remember the page of AD&D/GW conversion guidelines that TSR put in the 1st edition AD&D DM's guide? Oh, how I remember, the hodge-podge campaign we had going back in the early days.

I do...

And had the books uptil I did a purge a bunch of years back... Yep 300 lbs of Dragon magazines, old games nobody ever plays, game magazines, maxims....

yea the trash men were not happy with me that week...

[LegacyTyphoon]

Robotech: The Roleplaying Game
Macross II: The Roleplaying Game
Macross II: Source books

I'm not sure if Mage: The Reckoning or Changeling are out of print.

[Jackob]

Robotech: The Roleplaying Game
Macross II: The Roleplaying Game
Macross II: Source books

I'm not sure if Mage: The Reckoning or Changeling are out of print.

Mage: the Reckoning? There was a Mage: the Ascension and there is a Mage: the Awakening.

Changeling: the Dreaming isn out of print, but Changeling: the Lost is more than making up for it.

[LegacyTyphoon]

My bad...You're right its Mage: The Awakening, I'm sitting here in the computer lab typing this (You can tell I haven't looked at the book in a while...).

[Jackob]

My bad...You're right its Mage: The Awakening, I'm sitting here in the computer lab typing this (You can tell I haven't looked at the book in a while...).

Heh. Awakening is nWoD and still in print, Ascension was oWoD and now out of print.

[LegacyTyphoon]

...Now I'm completely confused, I'll post the actual book once I get home...

[Jackob]

...Now I'm completely confused, I'll post the actual book once I get home...

Think back - bright blue cover or purple? IIRC, that's the cover colours.

[Mike Taylor]

My bad...You're right its Mage: The Awakening, I'm sitting here in the computer lab typing this (You can tell I haven't looked at the book in a while...).

The only OWoD (Old World of Darkness) books I have left are for Hunter: The Reckoning, which I keep on hand to lift ideas from for All Flesh Must Be Eaten. And yes, everything that was connected to the Old World of Darkness is out of print. The new Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Promethean, and Hunter games take place in a brand new world.

[sableagle]

Have they got rid of the Inevitable Failure And Doom thing?

The Ferret (recently mentioned in the nerd train thread (http://www.devilspanties.com/forums/showpost.php?p=20335&postcount=19)) had a tendency to talk about "the beautiful tragedy of Werewolf, that they could win if only they'd stop bickering and feuding and work together" or something like that. He likes the world-doomed-by-people-being-idiots stuff. I kept wanting to slap him with a month's newspapers.

Really, a month. Have you seen the size of the Sunday papers here? It'd take him a week to climb out from under one.

[Mike Taylor]

From the beginning, the original World of Darkness was designed with an end in mind. The new one was created so that the Storyteller and the players had more control over what was going on.

[Crazeyal]

I like the narcissitic opinion better. WW got slapped so hard about it's multiple "borrowings" when it tried to sue over the movie "Underworld" that they ended the universe they created. They then put out a coule of weak books categorizing the event, with no REAL ending, and then sold a new setup to their diminished fan base.

[LegacyTyphoon]

Think back - bright blue cover or purple? IIRC, that's the cover colours.

Purple cover.

[Mike Taylor]

I like the narcissitic opinion better. WW got slapped so hard about it's multiple "borrowings" when it tried to sue over the movie "Underworld" that they ended the universe they created. They then put out a coule of weak books categorizing the event, with no REAL ending, and then sold a new setup to their diminished fan base.

There's a bit of a problem with that, namely the amount of time it takes to get a book published. There's a one year period between the release of end of the old World of Darkness/release of Underworld and the newer game line. RPG books usually, but not always, go through several drafts and extensive play-testing before the text reaches its final form. That's not even factoring things like waiting on the artwork, pushing through books already in queue for release, and the usual unexpected things we all have to deal with.

When my friend Jason got his first RPG book published, Nightbane: Shadows of Light, it was three years from the initial product pitch to the time it was released for sale. The same also happened for his two later books with Eden Studios.

I'd be willing to bet that that Gehenna, Ascension and the rest of the "Time of Judgement" books were already in development before White Wolf was even aware of the alleged similarities between Underworld and the WoD story The Love of Monsters.

[Jackob]

They then put out a coule of weak books categorizing the event, with no REAL ending, and then sold a new setup to their diminished fan base.

:( I was a writer on one of those books. :(

Purple cover.

Old WoD

[RazorJAK]

I like the narcissitic opinion better. WW got slapped so hard about it's multiple "borrowings" when it tried to sue over the movie "Underworld" that they ended the universe they created. They then put out a coule of weak books categorizing the event, with no REAL ending, and then sold a new setup to their diminished fan base.

Honestly, I wonder how much of the fanbase was diminished more from the fact that WW made a habit of suing their own fan clubs than from their attempt to sue Sony over Underworld.

[Jackob]

Honestly, I wonder how much of the fanbase was diminished more from the fact that WW made a habit of suing their own fan clubs than from their attempt to sue Sony over Underworld.

When it came to Underworld, the suit was legit and I doubt it lost thme many fans.

As for suing the LARP club (The Camarilla), I have very little idea about what went on there, but it seems to have soured a lot of people involved.

[Jamcat]

Um, it's not a RPG, but I'll throw in another favorite out of print game from the past... FASA's Combots. Anybody remember that game?

I remember meeting Jordan Weisman once while working at the Chicago BattleTech Center. I told him I loved Combots. He laughed and said thanks and said I was the only fan, as the game didn't do too well for FASA.

[RazorJAK]

When it came to Underworld, the suit was legit and I doubt it lost thme many fans.

As for suing the LARP club (The Camarilla), I have very little idea about what went on there, but it seems to have soured a lot of people involved.

My opinion of the Underworld lawsuit is fairly well mirrored by this penny arcade strip (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/09/08).

Their whole stance on "creating" the concept of a war between Vampires and Werewolves? Um, sorry folks. That's a concept that was well trod upon long before WW's creative testicles dropped. Even the "Real Ghostbusters" cartoon dealt with it years before White Wolf released the first rulebook for V:tM.

Hell, that episode of Real Ghostbusters even had Abominations ( the vampire/werewolf melding ).

I've not read the Nancy Collins story which White Wolf claimed was stolen by the people behind the utterly horrible Underworld script. But I've always held that she probably had a better case against the silver screen version of Blade being a ripoff of Sonja Blue.

[Jackob]

My opinion of the Underworld lawsuit is fairly well mirrored by this penny arcade strip (http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2003/09/08).

Their whole stance on "creating" the concept of a war between Vampires and Werewolves? Um, sorry folks. That's a concept that was well trod upon long before WW's creative testicles dropped. Even the "Real Ghostbusters" cartoon dealt with it years before White Wolf released the first rulebook for V:tM.

Hell, that episode of Real Ghostbusters even had Abominations ( the vampire/werewolf melding ).

I've not read the Nancy Collins story which White Wolf claimed was stolen by the people behind the utterly horrible Underworld script. But I've always held that she probably had a better case against the silver screen version of Blade being a ripoff of Sonja Blue.

The thing that settled it for me, in addition to the Nacy Collins book, was that silver nitrate rounds worked against werewolves. It's an illogical, unscientific and kinda dumb idea and White Wolf started that stupidity.

Of course, there was lots of other minor stuff, but that one thing was the biggie for me.

[RazorJAK]

What about the "liquid daylight" rounds?

Seriously, the Underworld franchise is even dumber than the Mila Jovovich movie "Ultraviolet".(*) And with how retarded THAT piece of shite was, you know how much I detest the Underworld movies.

Though at least Ulraviolet had an amusing attempt at scientifically explaining "Hammerspace".

(*) Now the late 90s british series "Ultraviolet"? THAT was good. Still can't believe Fox tried to sell an american remake of it.

No, scratch that. I CAN believe that Fox tried to produce an american remake of it. After all, they tried their best to fuck the corpse of the Doctor Who franchise back in 96.

"Yeah, this whole thing about Doctor Who being an alien? We need to change that. Let's make him half human. That works in every sci-fi series."

[sableagle]

Silver nitrate ... that's just not practical.

A Glaser filled with mercury, though? That might work ... on just about anything, eventually. The ballistics might be a bit off, though. It's dense stuff.

[Jackob]

What about the "liquid daylight" rounds?

At least WW never tried anything quite that stupid... they just had a daylight bomb. *G*

Seriously, the Underworld franchise is even dumber than the Mila Jovovich movie "Ultraviolet".(*) And with how retarded THAT piece of shite was, you know how much I detest the Underworld movies.

Oh, yes, the Underworld franchise is BAAAAAAAD! Michael Sheen and Bill Nighy are great as ever, but the rest. YARGH! I saw the second one (I have no excuse) and among the amazingly bad stuff is a sex scene with Scott Speedman and Kate Beckinsale being eye to eye throughout. Which tells me the director is a virgin...

Though at least Ulraviolet had an amusing attempt at scientifically explaining "Hammerspace".

Hammersapce???

(*) Now the late 90s british series "Ultraviolet"? THAT was good. Still can't believe Fox tried to sell an american remake of it.

No, scratch that. I CAN believe that Fox tried to produce an american remake of it. After all, they tried their best to fuck the corpse of the Doctor Who franchise back in 96.

"Yeah, this whole thing about Doctor Who being an alien? We need to change that. Let's make him half human. That works in every sci-fi series."

US remake of Couplings, anyone?

[Jackob]

Silver nitrate ... that's just not practical.

A Glaser filled with mercury, though? That might work ... on just about anything, eventually. The ballistics might be a bit off, though. It's dense stuff.

Well, if the idea is that silver has an adverse effect on Werewolves and you want to put silver in them, neither is any good.

However, the stuff that's in the "silver nitrate" rounds is clearly mercury or liquid chrome...

[RazorJAK]

Hammersapce???



The extra-dimensional space from which a large cartoon hammer is pulled. It's used by characters like Bugs Bunny and anime girls who are angry at their male friends.

In Ultraviolet they called it "flat-space dimensional compression technology".

Holy Star Trek technobabble, Batman!

[Mike Taylor]

Um, it's not a RPG, but I'll throw in another favorite out of print game from the past... FASA's Combots. Anybody remember that game?

I remember meeting Jordan Weisman once while working at the Chicago BattleTech Center. I told him I loved Combots. He laughed and said thanks and said I was the only fan, as the game didn't do too well for FASA.

Only time I remember even seeing an ad for that game was in 1984. I did see a copy for sale at the Gamescience booth at Dragon*Con/ACE '91. Didn't buy it because the guy running the booth, Lou Zocchi (one of the Gamescience bigwigs), was being a dick to my little brother.

[sableagle]

Well, if the idea is that silver has an adverse effect on Werewolves and you want to put silver in them, neither is any good.Not if it has to be pure, uncontaminated, metallic silver, no. However, some audiences might be willing to accept that silver or quicksilver works ...

[RazorJAK]

Or titanium ...

Let's see how many get that reference.

[sableagle]

You'd have to give it a soft jacket or you'd never get it to deform into the rifling properly.

I suppose you could use a smooth-bore weapon for a titanium slug.

[Leffy]

that one superstition makes me wonder. we all know now there is a silver allergy. so how many innocent people got screwed over in the end because of it?

[Jurgen]

I'm busy wondering about how close I am to being sued by the headcases. My story is very much a werewolf/vampire love story but it's sort of Underworld reversed, the main character is a wolf, he's gargantuan, he's a deliberate arse and no matter what I will not allow a sex scene between him and the female lead and even more categorically there will be NO happy ending.
So yeah, put the DVD of Underworld on the telly and watch it in a magic mirror.

As for out of print I'm not sure if Fighting Fantasy did die, I remember a re-issue a few years back, but I got all of the green ones from the 90s and didn't like the new cover illustrations.

[RazorJAK]

*sigh* I guess I was the only one here who saw HOWLING II:Your Sister is a Werewolf.

[Leffy]

i saw it but i was ickle... and screaming at my cousin through most of it because there ws bubblegim miraculously in my hair.

[Jamcat]

Only time I remember even seeing an ad for that game was in 1984. I did see a copy for sale at the Gamescience booth at Dragon*Con/ACE '91. Didn't buy it because the guy running the booth, Lou Zocchi (one of the Gamescience bigwigs), was being a dick to my little brother.

Think I'll dig Combots out of the closet and see if I can adapt the game to solo play.

[RazorJAK]

i saw it but i was ickle... and screaming at my cousin through most of it because there ws bubblegim miraculously in my hair.

Christopher Lee's character in Howling II went into great detail about how the legends were wrong. It was titanium that werewolves were weak against, not silver. Yet goes into no reasoning why this would be.

I still can't believe Christopher Lee turned down the role of Doctor Loomis in Halloween and yet accepted the role in this flick.

[Mike Taylor]

In Ultraviolet they called it "flat-space dimensional compression technology".

Holy Star Trek technobabble, Batman!

There was an anime series called Zone of the Enders where the mecha, called Orbital Frames, used something similar called a Vector Trap. It could be made to do all kinds of funky things.

[Claidhmore]

The Street Fighter game.

Stop laughing! It had some fun stuff in it!

[Talen]

And Battletech.

Not at all dead or OOP, only under new management. A new 3039 Tech Manual just got released to great delight amidst us oldschoolers (1st Ed Mechwarrior GM, FASA-era tourney champ, and MechForce member for years back in the day) and they're regularly putting out updated rulebooks, vehicles, etc.

It's just called "Classic Battletech" these days.

WizKid's click-'Tech is it's own beast.

[Lithanial]

Not sure if its been mentioned (not read all the thread...poor me) but the Mutant Chronicals stuff rocked, some fantastic imagry and to be honest, its probably a fairly realistic outlook on how the future might turn out....if you take out the black legion of course :D

[Claidhmore]

Ooo, I liked that one too! I played a lot of WarZone back in the day - still have most of the books.

[Lithanial]

still got the main book, Mishima book, Capitol book, Bauhaus book and the Ilian book :D

[Mike Taylor]

Wasn't that game created by a bunch of former Games Workshop guys?

[Silverharp]

When it came to Underworld, the suit was legit and I doubt it lost thme many fans.

As for suing the LARP club (The Camarilla), I have very little idea about what went on there, but it seems to have soured a lot of people involved.

I was in the middle of that.
What happened was that White Wolf saw a mismanagement of funds and resources that were provided (Including the complete lack of periodacles that were supposed to come out every year as part of membership) and so the company said "Okay, this is our game, we can manage the club better than this and give more value to the fan/customer base"
Having been a member since '94, and seeing the changes, I agree.
The legal actions were started by individuals who had been misappropriating club funds to comp themselves to weekends at conventions, flights (Both national and international), hotels, etc...

[Silverharp]

You'd have to give it a soft jacket or you'd never get it to deform into the rifling properly.

I suppose you could use a smooth-bore weapon for a titanium slug.

Why not just go for rounds with the consitency of a soft lead bullet?
I've seen what those bad boys can do, and I'd think getting a soft silver allow splattered into muscle tissue and wrapped around bone would give any were type a seriously bad day

[Silverharp]

*sigh* I guess I was the only one here who saw HOWLING II:Your Sister is a Werewolf.

I'd blocked ALL of the Howling flicks out, but now they're back you bastard!

[RazorJAK]

You're welcome :-)

[Mike Taylor]

Gotta love movies where the werewolves had rockets shoved up their butts to make them jump.