D&D: Satan's game

[dthsapprntc]

this is funny:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fVsTtSrOMsI

[Kuseru]

Try http://www.cybermoonstudios.com/8bitDandD.html

[Mike Taylor]

Don't forget THIS! (http://www.humpin.org/mst3kdd/)

[Jamcat]

Quite amusing.

That reminds me of a time back in the 80's when a friend's mom got all holy and made him throw out *ALL* of his D&D stuff. Funny thing was, another friend went throught the garbage and took all the stuff.

But my friend's mom didn't mind her son playing my RPG, as I was into Star Frontiers at the time. So I guess lasers, robots and spacships were ok as opposed to magic, demons, and swords.

[Leffy]

its like the lady trying to block harry potter from the schools and public libraries. its eeeeeevil.

because no child is dreaming of having an easier way of doing things and a big change in their lives.

[Jamcat]

Ah, gotta love the bible thumping jesus freaks. Bloody bunch of hypocrites they are. Yeah, how can D&D or Harry Potter be bad when the christian religion itself is all about fear? Like: If you don't accept jesus or believe in god, you will go to hell!

I kinda find that funny. If I don't believe in god, I supposedly will go to hell. But where do I go if I don't believe in the devil? To me, the christian religion is so f--ked up. Like how is it if I were to rape, steal, and kill, but yet believe in jesus I will go to heaven. But if I treat my fellow man kindly, but don't believe in jesus, I go to hell. Makes no sense!

[wolfie]

Fundie Freak: D&D is evil, it promotes devil worship the occult, and *gasp* magic

Gamer: But Jesus did magic, water to wine, raising the dead, and curing lepers

FF: Thats only cause he was Jesus

G: But you worship a guy who did magic.

FF: But dude, he is Jesus.

...and on and on and on

God is great, Jesus was a good person, religion sucks.

[Jamcat]

For me, I can't get into the jesus or anthropomorphic (humanized) god thing. Not into the "serve & worship your lord and master" of the christian religion. Seems too slave-like to me.

I'm not into religion, but if I had to choose a religion, it would be Force-like like Taoism of the Chinese.

From http://www.exn.ca/starwars/taoism.cfm

May the Force be with you. Utter this famous line and there's no mistaking it. You're referring to the driving force (pardon the pun) behind the Star Wars world of exploding planets and intergalactic wars. But what exactly is it? In the words of the character Obi-wan Kenobi, a Jedi knight: "The Force is what gives the Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."

Neat. A power in all of us that we can manipulate to, say, blow up an evil empire or control the galaxy. Played out in a world of Jedi knights, princesses and evil Imperial troops, it's a tantalizing basis for a hyper-tech fairy tale. But, as synonymous as the Force is with the make-believe world of Star Wars, some of its basic principles can be found in a real-life, ancient Chinese philosophy called Taoism.

"The Tao is kind of, well, a force that pervades the universe," says Anne Collins Smith, a philosophy and classical studies professor at Susquehanna University in Selinsgrove, Pennsylvania. "It is the source of the universe, but it also IS the universe."

There are enough similarities between the Force and the Tao that Smith, an avid Star Wars fan, uses the movie to help explain concepts in Taoism in her classes. Taoism is one of the two major indigenous religio-philosophical traditions that has shaped Chinese life for more than 2,000 years. A mysterious, master Taoist named Lao-tzu, an archivist at the court of the Chou dynasty (c. 1111-255 BC) and an instructor of Confucius, is said to be one of its founders, after writing a series of poems called the Tao-te Ching.

Tao, often translated as the way or the path, is the ineffable, eternal, creative reality that is the source and end of all things. Te refers to the manifestation of Tao within all things. Thus, to fully possess Te, one must be in perfect harmony with one's original nature.

Put another way, the Tao can be understood in three ways, explains Smith. It is the nature of the universe. It is also your true essence. And it is the way to lead your life. "Really this meaning ties the other two together, because the way to lead your life is to get your personal Tao in touch with the Tao of the whole universe."

Sound familiar? "Be one with the force, Luke," advises his teacher Obi-wan Kenobi, as our hero learns the "ways of the Force".

A key principle in becoming a master Taoist, is wu-wei, sometimes translated as creative inaction. "It literally means getting things done without doing anything," says Smith. But perhaps it's better described as an action that is so well in accordance with things, that there is no evidence of the action. To the Taoist, any deliberate intervention in the natural order of things will eventually turn into the opposite of what was intended and result in failure. And that is a common theme in Star Wars, says Smith.

Take the scene from the first Star Wars movie, where Obi-wan Kenobi is teaching Luke Skywalker the "ways of the Force" on Han Solo's Millennium Falcon. Luke is trying hard to avoid laser blasts from a remote, but fails miserably. When Obi-wan Kenobi places a blaster helmet on his head so he can't see, he easily deflects the remote's laser blasts.

And remember the last battle scene when Luke blows up the Death Star? Several deliberate attempts by the Rebels, using a targeting computer, end in failure. But when Luke, once again listens to Obi-wan Kenobi to "use the Force", he turns off the device and takes a successful shot. "That's really Taoist," says Smith.

One poem in the Tao-te Ching describes the Tao like this:
The Tao is like a bellows: it is empty yet infinitely capable. The more you use it, the more it produces; The more you talk of it, the less you understand.

This idea of doing rather than understanding is paralleled in Luke Skywalker's experiences with his second Jedi teacher, the small, wrinkled Yoda. When Luke tries and fails to lift out his spacecraft from a swamp after trying to get a mental grip on such an impossible-seeming feat, Yoda replies "Try not. Do," and effortlessly raises the ship onto dry land.

But that's where the analogies end. Taoism "celebrates a kind of agrarian lifestyle where people are very much in tune with nature - trees, grass and growing things," points out Smith. "It's against the idea of conscious manipulation of the environment." Not exactly in line with the technology-driven world of Star Wars.

The Force is also expressed as two opposites - good vs. evil, dark vs. light. And on a superficial level, it has a parallel in Taoism. One of its icons is the yin yang symbol. A circle divided in two, it represents the unity of apparent opposites. The Yin represents the dark, death, winter and female side of the universe, while the Yang symboilizes the light, life, summer and male side.

But unlike the theme of the positive energy of the Force overcoming the Dark Side in Star Wars, the two sides are inseparable in Taoism.

"The ethics in Taoism is to respect both the yin and the yang aspects because both are necessary," explains Owen Smith, also a philosophy and classical studies professor at Susquehana University and Smith's husband. "It is a mistake philosophically to try and foster the yang at the expense of the yin."

A mistake for those practicing Taoism, but it's a perfect way to incorporate a mysterious, unidentified religious force into a fairy tale.

[Mike Taylor]

To me, the christian religion is so f--ked up. Like how is it if I were to rape, steal, and kill, but yet believe in jesus I will go to heaven.

That's a somewhat flawed interpretation there, James. What is said is that no one is beyond redemption. You can have an ugly, nasty evil past, but if you repent, seek forgiveness for your sins, and genuinely change your ways (note that last part), then you can go to Heaven. The guy that acknowledges Christ as the Saviour, yet continues to do horrible things has not repented. Remember what he told the harlot who was about to be stoned to death, "Go forth and sin no more." I can assure you that Fred Phelps, that farce who claims to be a man of God, would not make it through the Pearly Gates.

But if I treat my fellow man kindly, but don't believe in jesus, I go to hell. Makes no sense!

Again, not necessarily true. As I understand the scripture, one who has been a genuinely good person and not heard of Jesus actually stands a pretty good chance of getting in as opposed to someone who has and rejected Him.

I hate to say this, but there's a lot of church-goers and even church LEADERS out there who don't get the message. Those are the guys (your Fred Phelpses, Jim Bakkers, Bob Joneses, and Pat Robertsons) everybody trots out when they want tear down the faith. Those guys are NOT what the faith is about.

Anyway, I'm done with the religious debate for now. This is the board I come to in order to escape that on other boards.

[Jamcat]

As I understand the scripture, one who has been a genuinely good person and not heard of Jesus actually stands a pretty good chance of getting in as opposed to someone who has and rejected Him.

Ok, this is for anybody to answer: So what happens to someone who's heard of jesus, has rejected jesus/god, yet still is a good person? Do they still get damned to hell? Seems kinda unfair if that is the case.

If god is supposed to be "all loving", why would he/she/it damn someone to hell because they rejected him/her/it, even if that person treated everybody kindly? To me, that would seem to make god more evil and cruel than loving.

Also, going by the tale, god supposedly gave everyone free will, right? Using this free will, one could accept or reject god. So, why should god penalize someone for using the free will that he/she/it gave them? If god does not want anybody rejecting him/her/it, then he/she/it should not have given everybody free will.

Of if god is supposed to know everything, then god should have known that giving free will would mean he/she/it would be rejected by some. If that was the risk of giving free will, then god should have just sucked it up and dealed with being rejected by some.

In my opinion, it's wacky stuff like this why I don't follow any religion.

[Rapscallion]

Anyway, I'm done with the religious debate for now. This is the board I come to in order to escape that on other boards.

This works for me.

http://www.fratching.com if you want a debate board (same software, same server, set up for contentious issues).

Rapscallion

[wolfie]

oh wow, I could spend several days there voicing my opinion on oh so many topics. I wonder how long it would take to get banned off that site? hrrrmmmm Sounds like a fun challange :dgrin:

[Crazeyal]

Well it's not designed for people to GET thrown off. But you'll get ignored pretty quick if you are an idiot.

[wolfie]

Yea, I posted that before I checked it out and discovered who the admin was.

[Leffy]

wow. that was somehow one of the most mature and swift ending religious debates i've ever seen.

without bloodshed no less!

am i in bizarro world o.O

[DarkPirateShea]

Ok, this is for anybody to answer: So what happens to someone who's heard of jesus, has rejected jesus/god, yet still is a good person? Do they still get damned to hell? Seems kinda unfair if that is the case.

Tehe, this reminds me of something my dad told me once. He said he made a kid cry back in high school. The kid started going on about how "you must accept jesus or be damned!" and yadda yadda yadda. And my dad asks him, "But what about like, the Dalai Lama?"

Of course, I'm sure there was more to the argument than that. But that's the part that stuck in my head. Obviously the kid had never even considered that point of view.

[Leffy]

thats the difficulty of religious discussion. there are TOO MANY possiblities for various points of view. the original topic itself is too objective for proper discussion.

but its is pretty badass when you find someone that can compare notes and actually enjoy talking out (NOT FIGHTING OVER) any differences.

[DarkPirateShea]

thats the difficulty of religious discussion. there are TOO MANY possiblities for various points of view. the original topic itself is too objective for proper discussion.

well I also got the impression that the kid was really being an ass about the whole thing.

and yeah, I gotta agree totally about being able to hold a civilized conversation about stuff like that. it's refreshing to talk to someone with different views that you, but who also has an open mind and a civil tongue.

[Rapscallion]

Well it's not designed for people to GET thrown off.

More like for arguments to get thrown into. Keeps the crap off the main sites. Costs me an extra licence, but it's worth it.

Yea, I posted that before I checked it out and discovered who the admin was.

Like, rawr, man.

Rapscallion

[Leffy]

Like, rawr, man.

Rapscallion

i giggled my keester off actually imagining that. i love you Raps.

[wolfie]

Religion and politics are two things my friends and I keep religion and politics off the table. In my experience those two topics seem to be the quickest road to ruin between two people.

[Leffy]

it is difficult finding ways to discuss it that don't offend or leave you offended.

[Akuma]

Religion and politics are two things my friends and I keep religion and politics off the table. In my experience those two topics seem to be the quickest road to ruin between two people.


I also have added graphics card choices, processor choices and cola choices to that list.

[Jamcat]

Religion and politics are two things my friends and I keep religion and politics off the table. In my experience those two topics seem to be the quickest road to ruin between two people.

Nah! For me, when it comes to politics, I get people saying to me "What?! You don't vote?!" Nope! Never have and never will. I don't follow any side. To me, ALL politicians are crooks. They talk their crap of "change", like Obama for example, then when they get in whatever office, all that talk of "change" goes out the window and they f--k over the people.

As for religion, like politics, I love getting the "What?! You don't believe in god?!". Nope! Sorry, for me religions are just myths created by man's imagination. Gods are no different than other imaginary beings man has created like Superman, Batman, or whatever. It's all fantasy, no different than the RPGs played, and characters made up by the people here on this forum. For me, I need solid proof that I can see, hear, or touch. If not solid proof, it has to be logical. I don't see any proof there is a god or gods. And stuff like that is just not logical. Besides, the stuff I've been through in life is enough for me to see that there is no god.

[Jamcat]

I also have added graphics card choices, processor choices and cola choices to that list.

Hahaaha, don't forget to add music as well. Man, you tell someone Rap and Hip Hop music is nothing but audio garbage, and they want to go out for blood.